More sentences
February 21, 2010
As the previous post had the largest and hardest part of lojban grammar, this one it’s going to have only a few sentences (bridi) as examples of what can we say.
But first, some random vocabulary I’m going to use:
- klama: x1 comes/goes to destination x2 from origin x3 via route x4 using means/vehicle x5.
- blanu: x1 is blue.
- bloti: x1 is a boat/ship/vessel [vehicle] for carrying x2, propelled by x3.
- karce: x1 is a car/automobile/truck/van (a wheeled motor vehicle) for carrying x2, propelled by x3.
klama has 5 sumti to fill, but it’s not necessary to fill them all; like in this sentence:
mi klama lo zdani
Meaning “I go (or come) to a house“. The bridi doesn’t specify which house, when this happens (if I’m going right now, or I did it in the past, or if I’ll go); it’s open for interpretation, as well as the unfilled sumti (it isn’t specified from where I’m going, which route I am taking or how I’m).
If I want to specify I’m going by car, I have to use x5, but x3 and x4 has to be left blank. I have several ways for doing this:
- mi klama lo zdani zo’e zo’e lo karce
- mi klama lo zdani fu lo karce
- lo karce ku xe te klama lo zdani mi
The first one use the word zo’e, which is used to specify the sumti is left blank. The second tags lo karce with fu, that specifies the following sumti is the fifth (fa does the same but for x1, fe for x2, and so). The third is just some sick and unnatural way (no one would say that that way — it’s just for educational reasons); te and xe modifies the selbri and switches the places of the sumti. (For more information about this, you can read the section Conversion (“se-word brivla”) in this chapter of “What is Lojban?“.)
What about giving more information of one of the sumti? There are lots of ways; I don’t know all them yet.
Imagine I’m going in a blue boat instead of a car (it would be really cool…). Then, I’d say:
mi klama lo zdani zo’e lo blanu bloti
blanu modifies bloti, making a tanru, which is formed when two or more gismu are next each other.
I don’t know what you think, but I think I’ve learned enough to “evolve“. I understand the basis of Lojban grammar, I know many words, and I can introduce myself (.i mi’e leos.). I chose a dolphin to be my new level!
February 22, 2010 at 2:20
It might be more accurate to say that leaving a place blank is used to indicate that its value is zo’e.
.au lo nu do tadni la lojban. cu pluka do
P.S. You’ve filled klama’s x4 place with the vehicle, when it should be x5. It can be helpful to run sentences through a parser (such as the one at http://www.lojban.org/jboski ) to check yourself.
February 22, 2010 at 10:21
*embarrased*
I’ve been making lots of mistakes (each post had at least one edition), but just because I hurry up unnecessarely. Thanks for pointing them out for me!
February 22, 2010 at 8:16
I started learning just about a week after you.
I recommend Quizlet.com for getting the vocabulary down. I already feel comfortable with the top 250 gismu, and am working to add 50 per day. I’m also studying the grammar rules, which seem pretty easy, but require a lot of memorization as well.
Soon I’ll move on to the cmavo.
I’ll race you to fluency!
February 22, 2010 at 10:52
Nice to see more classmates joining!
I hadn’t step into that page. It seems really useful; I’ll be using it for sure.
What I did see was the smart.fm lessons. They have the advantage of having voice records of the sentences.
I really wish I had more time to learn the vocabulary and grammar (I might be able to learn 50 gismu… but in a week or so!), but anyway… a little bit of healthy competition will come in handy to each other
February 22, 2010 at 12:52
In sentence 3, you need either a {ku} or a {cu} (or both, in that order) between {lo karce} and {xe te klama lo zdani mi}, otherwise you get a tanru.
February 22, 2010 at 13:09
Wow, that’s something I didn’t expected. I thought putting a te (or any other like them) would be enough to indicate the next word is the selbri. That {se,te…} thing is causing me some trouble
Thanks for pointing it out for me!
February 22, 2010 at 19:32
The thing inside a description (that is, following “le” or a word like it) is a selbri too; that’s why it joins up without a terminator (edited… I hope you don’t mind!). The selbri following “le” can be every bit as complicated as the main selbri in a bridi—I didn’t realize this at first either—which is handy because it means we can say things like “le blanu se kelci”: the blue toy.
February 22, 2010 at 19:48
Yep… I asked in the IRC channel (thanks xalbo!) and they made me understand that.
{le blanu se kelci} it’s a great example! I might be using it if you don’t mind
February 24, 2010 at 5:41
Also, {lo karce xe te klama lo zdani mi} is wrong for another reason.
xe – swap one and five
x1 klama x2 x3 x4 x5 ) becomes ( x5 klama x2 x3 x4 x1
Then adding te
te – swap one and three
x5 klama x2 x3 x4 x5 ) becomes ( x3 klama x2 x5 x4 x1
…and now you’re all buggered up.
However, if you add one more xe…
x3 klama x2 x5 x4 x1 ) becomes ( x1 klama x2 x5 x4 x3
{.i mi xe te xe klama lo zdani ku lo karce ku vau}
The rule is that you figure out what two places you want to swap out, and repeat it twice. {xe te xe} or {te xe te} swaps 3 and 5, {se ve se} or {ve se ve} swaps 2 and 4, etc.
So, I eagerly await your latest version.
February 24, 2010 at 13:32
Lindar,
I asked that in the IRC channel, and they told me it’s ok the way I write it, because {se} and family modify the selbri from inside out. So, in the example:
{lo karce ku xe te klama lo zdani mi}
te works before xe.
The parser says:
[1(2[klama5 (vehicle(s)) :] lo any/some karce car(s) ku )2 [is, does] «3xe te klama being vehicle(s)»3 (4[klama2 (destination(s)) :] lo any/some zdani home(s))4 (5[klama1 (go-er(s)) :] mi I, me)5]1